Trachycarpus nova in the wild

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Trachycarpus nova in the wild

Berichtdoor garryendson op 20 nov 2011 02:35

There has been a long debate and confusion about Nova , a mysterious variety yet to be described.

Since 2007, we have been traveling in the stone gate area and collecting seeds seeds from different sources in this topographically and climatically complicated area for the purpose of figuring out what Nova is. Based on four years of exploration in the habitat , actual experience with thousands of seedlings grown in the field and pot,together with exchanges with other growers, we come to conclude that first of all there are 2 forms of Nova,the narrow form and the wide formand most importantly Nova the narrow form is existing as an undescribed new variety in the wildapart from in cultivation.

A long story about the discovery of Nova in the wild full of ups and downs.
In 2007, apart from collecting T.princeps from stone gate and first Nova seeds in the village, we obtained a handful of unknown seeds from palms of a local farmer living at a soil mountain who said his father grew from T.princeps seeds which we doubted 1 year later and the palms also displayed apparently white powder to the underside of leaves. Therefore, we traveled to the stone gate area a second time again in 2008 to check the mother palms and found that the mother palms did have apparently white backs similar to those of T.princeps and plus the leaves are somewhat evenly cut to halfway which confused many people. These palms are different from other Nova with which we previously saw in the village with no or little white powder like T.fortunei and moreover, 1 day later we found dozens of more similar types in the wild of the mountain ,nearby his house. Without any reliable information available for reference at that time, so we tentatively named them as T.princeps-cultivated due to the white backs ( NOT the second form of T.pricepes-cultivated with different seedling found in late 2009 in a limestone rocky mountain, dozens of kilometers away ) as opposed to the nova we previously found in the village at the bottom of the mountain. After 4 years of cultivation and observation, we come to find that the seedlings from the farmer's seeds in the mountain are quite like the other Nova we collected in the village with both putting out narrowly and evenly split leaves like T.princeps ,except that the first source from the mountain are inclined to producing somewhat more bluish colorations to the undersides whereas the Nova we found in the village are not , like T.fortunei in this respect.

So it can be initially concluded that Nova,namely the narrow form is a new undescribed variety distributed in the wild, producing consistently even and narrow leaflets with relative apparent white powder to the undersides of leaves.

The following are the general features for Nova which people could use to distinguish from other varieties,
1)evenly and narrowly split leaflets like T.princeps, which T.fortunei doesn't share
2)slender trunk and elongated peitoles like T.martianus
3) normally bending tips
4) deeply but relatively evenly cut leaves, UNLIKE T.fortunei
5) V-shaped fronds in seedlings
6) white powder to the undersides of leaveswhen getting older, not as apparent as T.princeps, but more obvious than T.fortunei
7) very fast growth rate which NO officially recognized trachycarpus can match, it is unanimously proved also by some growers in the world.

It is most likely that some growers obtained the seeds from different sources which could be mixed by the unsuspecting collectors,just like the supply of scare or none T.princeps seeds mixed with other seeds for export by some other suppliers till today .Therefore, they get mixed seedlings and no consistence of evenly and narrowly split leaves is observed whiles other growers do detect such special feature .That inconsistency as a result makes people sceptical of Nova existing as an independent variety,though clearly quite different from T.fortunei.

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Re: Trachycarpus nova in the wild

Berichtdoor Marc_S op 20 nov 2011 11:41

Garry,

Aslo good to see the pictures on this forum.

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Re: Trachycarpus nova in the wild

Berichtdoor garryendson op 13 dec 2011 08:14

Here is a comparison of T.nova-narrow from the wild , T.nova-wide from a village, T.princeps -stone gate and T. princeps-cultivated from some mountain of which we only collected one or two in different years due to scarcity and for the first time, we successfully got them all at the same time this year.

Seed size
Compared to other Trachycarpus seeds, Nova-narrow from the wild have the most glossy big orange to dark seeds with a glittering coating ,but no white powder presence. It looks like they are polished with wax by human deliberately,very interesting.
Nova -wide have big green to dark seeds which are not glossy at all. By contrast, T.princeps-cultivate also with silver backs from a wild mountain which I previously gave to some members to try on the forum is the only trachycarpus from stone gate area which I saw is identical in color and size to those of T.princeps- stone gate,but the subsequent seedlings are 4 ridgers as opposed to 2 ridgers of T.princeps.

Leaf

We took back one leaf from Nova-narrow of 5m trunk in the mountain and compared with those of Nova-narrow of 0.5m trunk we have cultivated for 4 years and the T.fortunei of 1m and 5m trunk we are growing.
The leaf of Nova -narrow is much larger across than that of any T.fortunei of 1-5m trunk we are growing and the length is 1-1.2m from the hastula to the middle leaflet tip whereas it is just around 0.8cm for a leaf of 5m trunk T.fortunei.
Both adult (tattered though after several weeks travel since being collected) and juvenile nova -narrow in general have more apparent silvery backs than T.fortunei, somewhere near T.princeps of 3-4 years old.
from December 2011
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from December 2009
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Adult Nova from the wild and young Nova of 4 years old we are growing and adult T.fortunei
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Re: Trachycarpus nova in the wild

Berichtdoor Herbert op 14 dec 2011 22:53

Gary,

Have a question: enclosed a pic (nr 1030053). You think is this princeps ( green) as it has quite stiff leaves or sp. nova. And if so (sp. nova) do I than understand well that you mean there are also 2 form sp. Nova or also a difference in stiff leaved sp. Nova. As the shape is like the stonegate ones but colour up is green. Normally takes much longer before the sp. nova (and we grow some really blueish/silver ones) is getting this colour ?
Enclosed a picture from tree in village as well and hope if you can tell if this one has to do some with sp.nova also.

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Trachycarpus nova or -- green_a.jpg
Trachycarpus nova or -- green_a.jpg (85.4 KiB) 8585 keer bekeken
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Re: Trachycarpus nova in the wild

Berichtdoor Herbert op 14 dec 2011 23:05

P1030053.JPG
much more stiff but green up and with very blueish underneath. Is this the one from the new location at the other river ?
P1030053.JPG (254.71 KiB) 8700 keer bekeken
[quote="Herbert"]Gary,
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Trachycarpus sp. Nova deco 21.JPG
Trachycarpus sp. Nova deco 21.JPG (227.01 KiB) 8700 keer bekeken
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Re: Trachycarpus nova in the wild

Berichtdoor garryendson op 15 dec 2011 17:13

Herbert
From your photo, I can say it is not T.princeps from stone gate,but hard to tell where exactly it is from. I heard from other growers that they bought T.princeps seeds from a European supplier earlier last year and they turned out to be something else, very much like yours after almost 2 year. But I dont know if yours are from that batch of seeds.

Late last year, we collected from the rocky mountains few seeds of T.princeps or princeps-like palms from w-source (verified to be 2 ridgers so far ) ,Sijitong ( 4 ridgers, probabbly the oldest version of Trachycarpus with silver backs like princeps found by Austrian botanist Heinrich Handel-Mazzetti from 1914 to 1918 leading to the later discovery of T.princeps in stone gate by Toby ) and the other side source ( 4 ridgers) at the opposite of stone gate princeps and most of the seeds were given away to some growers on EPS to solicit experience and help raise donation. So it is too early to make a comparison with them.

Over the past years, except undescribed small populations , it is believed that most of the T.princeps seeds on the market could be from the stone gate as it is the only biggest source. But some could be from the little woods at the foot of stone gate cliff and others from palms hanging on the cliff.We are still trying to find out what internal and external factors affect the white powder presence on the upper leaf surfaces of T.princeps and also whether the two different sources are attributed to the coloration variations of upper leaf for I see on the website many prineps are quite green on top with white backs though while few princeps are blue silver on top with white backs as well,
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http://www.palmsociety.org.uk/forum/top ... picid=4933

We collected Nova from 8 sources in total and labelled each precisely for the purpose of unraveling the long lasting mystery over Nova. That is why after more than 4 years of cultivation, it can be verified and found that Nova -narrow form with evenly and narrowly split leaflets like princeps are distributed in the wild ,apart from Nova-wide with wide leaflets from a village.How are the other new sources of Nova , princeps or princeps- like palms developing then? There is still much work to be done regarding these new sources of seeds.
Laatst bijgewerkt door garryendson op 16 dec 2011 00:42, in totaal 1 keer bewerkt.
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Re: Trachycarpus nova in the wild

Berichtdoor Herbert op 15 dec 2011 18:03

Gary,

You are right it is from that batch of seeds. As soon you know please keep me updated I will let you know the other way. First I thought it could be the new 4 ridger but thanks for your explanation. We still have to wait what brings.

All the much work you still have to do regarding your new sources of seeds will be good stuff to read for sure.

PS: next time take as well soil samples from trees in habitat which are close together with different silverly and investigate both samples.

Good luck and thanks for your answer,

Herbert
PS2, is the villagepalmpicture a nova ?????
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Re: Trachycarpus nova in the wild

Berichtdoor garryendson op 16 dec 2011 01:39

Since some said they were not from RPS like the previous Nova years ago and are not T.princeps at all, It is not easy to figure out the provenance unless the very first collector tells or wait till the other new sources of seedlings are bigger enough to present a comparison.So it could be any of them or else.

The palm at the village is Nova, I once run into as well as there is no white powder presence on the petioles and a different hair texture ,but with a relatively even leaf division (not so perfect like princeps) and silvery backs like the other adult and juvenile Nova we saw in the wild below . I see John's big Nova have nicely silver to the undersides and Marc's Nova in the pots are also silvery beneath and my 4 year old Nova grown from wild Nova seeds are now half meter trunk displaying more apparent white powder than T.fortunei , together with adult Nova leaf taken from wild and stone gate princeps,shown above.
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By princeps green, I dont know if you are talking about T.princeps with green uppersides and white backs or Nova which is formerly know as princeps green too.
You guys got any experience with the coloration at uppersides of princeps leaf :?:
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Re: Trachycarpus nova in the wild

Berichtdoor TropiRo op 16 dec 2011 10:32

I got a few princeps from seeds of Goldenlotus and they have a white coloration on the upperside, i have one growing indoors and that one has more white on the upperside.
Also got a few from rps seeds and they have less white on the upperside, the leave shape is also a little different from the Goldenlotus ones.

Goldenlotus.
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Rps.
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I also have a T. sp nova sold in 2006 as T. princeps from rps, this one now has 55 cm of trunk.
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In 2010 i got some nova seeds from you Garry and they now have 5/6 leaves.
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Re: Trachycarpus nova in the wild

Berichtdoor garryendson op 17 dec 2011 13:04

Yes,
I can see the blue white coloration on your beautiful princeps. You said you got an interestingly whiter princeps indoor in term of uppersides.My observation is that part of mine are also more bluish than those even in sunny locations.
So apart from soil, temperatures and other external factors,that may also point to the genetic heritage passed down from the mother palms, regardless of the growing conditions.

Your Nova also displays silvery backs to the undersides like what I saw in the habitat. :thumb_up:

Here are some more of my princeps with blue silver on top.
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